The Infinite Dial

This is an excellent question and something my client stations ask me all the time.

The word "Classic" is very subjective. It means
many things to many people. I have asked what makes a record "classic" in focus groups and never received the same answer twice. Hence the dilemma.

We have to understand who are audience is and how the Classic Rock format has grown over the years.
To a new generation of listeners, music from the 80's can be thought of as "Classic." Programmers don't think that way but listeners don't think in programming terms. Only in terms they understand and can relate to.

Who's to say listeners don't think early 90's music as "Classic"? If you're listening to a particular song produced in 1990, it's already 17yrs old. To a 15 or 20yr old listener, that may very well be thought of as a "classic" song.

Also, if we're going to continue to go after a 25-54 yr old audience with this format then it's a format that need to be redesigned with a specific
narrow demo in-mind. The only thing a 25 yr old has in common with the 54yr old is that one is the parent or the child. A 25yr old will naturally feel differently about what's classic than the parent.

My generation grew up with The Beatles, The Who,
The Rolling Stones, Janis Joplin, CCR and the like, while my parents grew up with the likes of Elvis, Chuck Berry, Paul Anka and Frank Sinatra,
It's all relative to the times we're living in.

We can certainly look at expanding our vision as programmers as to what a classic rock station ought to sound like and then go after that audience. Our audience is screaming for deeper cuts and more diversity, yet we keep playing the same 300-400 cuts almost everywhere.

We can't be all things to all people but we certainly can be a bit more diversified in our playlists. The average listener doesn't know a "Classic Hit" from a "Classic Rock" cut, nor do they care. They shouldn't have to, they just like what they like. Give the local audience what they want. That way, Satellite and Internet Radio will become much less of a factor in your market, and you'll gain cume and TSL.

Remember, your audience doesn't know what they want but likes what they know. I understand it can be confusing, but if you stick to that axiom and give them what they like (with deeper slices),
you'll have more devoted listeners and happier advertisers.

Gary Begin
Co-Owner/Consultant
Identity Programming
Jackson, TN
(731)437-0536

Well, the word "classic" connotes something truly special, memorable and enduring. "Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid" is a "classic", so is "Back To The Future". "Ishtar" is not, and neither is Nick Drake.

JJ, to me, Nick Drake is special, memorable and enduring--but your mileage may vary, of course!

Thanks for the note!
Tom

Classic Rock is a marketing/branding phrase as applied to American radio. We aren't making academic style distinctions concerning the musical validity of these songs, we're playing as broad a range of music as possible under the Classic Rock umbrella theme to attract as many listeners as possible. All of it guided (nudged) by the competitive landscape in our particular markets.

The reality is that familiarity with the songs drives this bus. A really good song that is unfamiliar to the audience is not really a good song for our purposes. Even if that song is part of the core structure of the genesis of Rock and Roll (whatever the hell that is). Perhaps those tracks are part of the A To Z feature.

In many cases a song that can be classified as classic is one that has survived and still gets played on the air. Are all of those songs "great" songs? Are ANY of those survivors "great" songs? You have your opinions about some songs and I have mine but those are just personal opinions (just like opinions listeners have). Those opinions certainly don't annoint any song as being classic on the level of material from Beethoven.

The word classic is overused at best. Look at the classic car collector world. Read any collector magazine and marvel at the level of acrimony in the discussions of which cars are truly classic. It's a hobby of mine and I've decided to take an "I like what I like" view to avoid endless nit picking conversation.

Isn't that how listeners deal with the radio? They like what they like and Classic Rock does not mean that radio has the inside track on what is truly timeless - although we image ourselves that way!

If you program a radio station practicality rules; if you're teaching a college course (or compiling a list from Last.FM) esoterica can rule.

We play the hits. More specifically, the hits that appeal to the current psyche of our listeners. We need to pay attention as listeners grow weary of some songs and become interested in hearing other songs. That's how Classic Rock is defined for this moment in time.

Jim Owen
Program Director
KSLX
Phoenix, AZ

Classic Rock is another format thats on the road to Florida, to wait to die. Joining 50's oldies, 60's oldies, MOR, and many others. Each new format makes the Pop 40 chain weaker & weaker.

While the parents couldn't find the off button on the TV, the youngsters have found the off button on the radio. And they are using it.

That's fine, Chris--but that didn't answer the question! Irrespective of the format distinction, what defines "Classic Rock"? Are there all-time enduring favorites, or is it as Jim suggests--the hits that appeal to the current psyche of your audience? I think Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit," for example, will endure forever and ever as a classic--though many of the "hits" that get played around it will not be. What is the 'secret sauce' of a Classic--and how do you know it when you see it?

Jim, you bring up the example of the Classic Car world, which is a real passion for my retired father. He winces when he sees a 1965 Ford Galaxy at a "classic car" show, but to others that is a timeless monument to a generation. What is the 1965 Mustang Fastback of Classic Rock, and how do you _know it_ when you see it?

I guess all I am getting at here (besides simply starting a conversation, which I thoroughly enjoy) is that when I think of classic rock, I think of a very distinct pantheon of records--but when I think of "All-time Rock Classics", that pantheon is slightly different. Where are the disconnects, and where are the commonalities?

And don't diss Last.FM as an example of Ivory Tower Academics. Change occurs at the margin, and there is a sea change a-comin'. CBS already senses this to be true.

Edith Wharton, an American writer and designer said...
”A classic is classic not because it conforms to certain structural rules, or fits certain definitions (of which its author had quite probably never heard). It is classic because of a certain eternal and irrepressible freshness.”

Couldn't have said it better myself. By extension arguments for the Smiths and Nick Drake are classics. The issue is "with whom" and how many of them are there.

BTW-- anybody that thinks last.fm isn't the most important innovation into understanding audience taste since the auditorium test needs their head examined.

to the limit.

T

OK - jeez, as the Beaver used to say - Last.FM is a miracle of the 21st century. There is a greater or lesser degree of truth in any list or audience response methodology. A list of songs compiled from the calls on my request line has a certain validity (and I have the jocks compile the requests they get for my perusal). Can't make any real decisions from those lists but they are interesting as possibly indicative of P1 tastes (or at least people that have the time to call us).

I totally agree about a sea change in progress and I think KSLX is evolving to reflect changing desires for more variety and depth. Both of those are loaded, booby trap words and the trick is the balance between research, experience and intuition (read the book Super Crunchers for a interesting argument for combining empirical data and intuition).

All of that is programming philosophy, though and I've strayed from your original question. Musically, I think there are lots of classic songs that Classic Rock doesn't play - Nirvana's "Come As You Are" is classic in my opinion and even tests with Classic Rock audiences. How many of you would think me insane if I started playing that along with the Beatles, Doors, Stones, etc.?

I guess I got off topic, but, classic used to be what was left out (by the current top format) and seemed to fade away. Classic Soul played Otis & The Falcons, while Current Soul was overtaken by the Funk & Disco Craze. Original Classic Rock was the artists who while for a moment popular, didnt fit in at Top 40, after their Top 40 hit faded. Same with Country, and even MOR.

Our classic rock station in San Diego this week has already begun playing a lot of 90s stuff. I was hearing Guns n' Roses (an interesting usual fixture in the station) and then all of a sudden, Jeremy of Pearl Jam was blaring on my speakers. 20 minutes later

I've always thought that "classic rock" was with the beholder of the mind. If you were born in the late 1970s through the early 1980s, bands like Nirvana, The Pixies, Sonic Youth, The Smiths would be classic rock to you because you were just growing up into that kind of music.